We've been bad bloggers lately. Between continuing to plug along through Stephen King's 11/22/63, which I'm loving, watching old episodes of American Horror Story and The Wire, and ... y'know ... working and parenting and stuff, there hasn't been time to finish books, watch new movies, or blog.
She and I watch American Horror Story with John on nights he's off work. It's an interesting pastiche of ghost stories and horror films, with shades of The Shining and Rosemary's Baby, that is if Rosemary decided to forgo chowing down on a little raw meat in favor of a nice bloody raw brain. It's definitely beyond by fucked-upness threshold, especially with the recurring theme of dead babies, one of the few things I consistently can't stomach. Yet I can't look away. :-)
Last weekend, Sarah and I watched Compliance, the next movie I plan to discuss with her and James as part of homeschool. This film was difficult to sit through, especially for Sarah. This kid, who introduced me to the likes of Tyrannosaur and Red, White and Blue, found Compliance too disturbing. She swears this is my ultimate revenge for all the spectacularly unsettling movies she's gotten me to watch.
Compliance is set in a fictional fast food restaurant. Sandra (Ann Dowd) is the middle-aged manager, responsible for a fast-paced business and harangued by her regional manager. One of her employees is Becky (Dreama Walker), barely out of her teens, who works at the counter. From the beginning you sense that Sandra is a bit jealous of the younger, more conventionally attractive woman -- there's subtle tension there. We also sense that she is intimidated by male authority. The stage is set.
A man calls the restaurant, claiming to be a police officer named Daniels, and solicits Sandra's help with an "investigation." He claims to have spoken with the regional manager and says an employee allegedly stole money from a customer. The police are too busy, with another investigation, to attend to the matter personally so Sandra needs to detain and question the employee about the theft. With Daniels on the phone, Sandra summons Becky, who loosely fits the description of the suspect, to the back of the restaurant.
Becky denies the charges, but she complies with the "investigation." Daniels tells Sandra to search Becky's pockets and purse for the stolen cash. When the money is not found, claiming that the alternative would be taking Becky to jail, he tells her to conduct a strip search. Then Becky's clothing needs to be removed from the building. And it doesn't stop there.
When Sandra insists that she needs to return to work, Daniels tells her to have a man come to the back room to watch Becky "for security purposes." Before long, a male employee is with Becky, who is trying to shield her naked body with an apron, as Daniels continues to ask questions and give instructions. Though he's a bit more assertive that Sandra, the male employee still doesn't hang up the damn phone when Daniels asks "What do her nipples look like?" I won't tell you just how far this goes. I'll leave you to discover this for yourself. And you'll understand why this tense, infuriating movie had many patrons walking out of the theater.
When John tells me war stories from police work, my reaction is frequently "People cannot possibly be that stupid!" Unfortunately, of course, I'm always wrong -- you'd think I'd just quit saying it. But I never cease to be astonished that the same species responsible for great works of art and quantum theory instigates all the spectacular idiocy that -- ironically -- gives my husband job security.
My reaction to Compliance was similar. People behave so mindlessly that the story wouldn't seem plausible, had we not already known it was closely based on actual events. Even with a true story as its backbone, this film couldn't have worked were it not for skillful writing and direction and outstanding performances. The acting is very natural, and the whole cast plays their roles with just the right amount of subtlety. Ann Dowd, as Sandra, artfully walks the line between passive aggressive hostility toward Becky and innocent bewilderment, discomfort, and sympathy for the younger woman.
Everything feels wholly real. And while the situation onscreen seems absurd beyond belief, it's presented with enough complexity and subtlety that I couldn't dismiss the story or the characters. This is definitely not a "fun" movie, but it's a very worthwhile film, and watching it was one of the more thought-provoking experiences I've had in a while.
It leaves us with the obvious question -- how in the name of all things holy does something like this happen? Even assuming someone will buy into the proposition that a police officer would actually carry out an investigation by proxy, why would anyone cross the line into agreeing to perform a strip search? A cavity search? And worse?
Why do seemingly "normal" people seemingly discard morality and common sense to comply with individuals seen as authority figures? I sometimes find myself pondering a related question, when reading about the ubiquitous problem of school bullying and myriad other situations. In a culture that prizes individuality so highly, why do we often see such a mindless herd mentality?
Topics I Want to Discuss With My Teens:
- In what circumstances is obedience to authority a good thing? In what circumstances is it a bad thing?
- Issues related to gender. Sandra definitely seemed more comfortable wielding her authority over females than males, and it seemed natural to her to put in man "in charge." Furthermore she seemed to feel rather powerless, which may have fueled a bit of passive aggressive hostility toward Becky. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but it seems impossible to fully discuss Compliance without touching on this issue.
- Famous Experiments by Stanley Milgram, studied by director Craig Zobel when preparing for this movie.
- Zimbardo's Prison Experiment
- Perpetrators of the Holocaust -- "I was just following orders" -- this dovetails with our ongoing studies of WW II.
- The Mai Lai Massacre during the Vietnam War
- The Jim Jones cult in Guyana
- Behavior by people on both sides at the infamous incident in Waco, triggered by cult leader David Koresh
- Going back to my question, why do seemingly "normal" people seem to discard morality and common sense to comply with individuals seen as authority figures? And why do we often see such a mindless herd mentality? Is this something we are all guilty of, to some extent?
- John Taylor Gatto's famous essay titled "The Seven Lesson Schoolteacher" is famous in unschooling circles. Writers like him state that the primary function of public schools is to teach conformity and compliance. Some have argued that compulsory schooling, established around the same time as the industrial revolution, was primarily instituted to provide compliant workers -- fodder for the factories and mills.
I don't agree with this scathing indictment of the public school system. (And as a side note, I worked with troubled youth in public schools for years. I didn't see a whole lot of compliance with authority going on. Many kids would've been better off if they'd complied with authority a bit more and quit shooting themselves in the foot. ;-))
I'll enthusiastically defend compulsory education and the institution of public education, which is the foundation of a democracy -- y'know like that guy Thomas Jefferson said. ;-) And I think public schools are used as a whipping boy far too much already.
On the other hand, in my experience, schools are -- in part -- held hostage to a standardized test driven culture which tends to prize compliance and conformity over creativity and complex thought. This isn't the fault of teachers or principals -- it's a political thing. If we want to create responsible citizens, is this a problem that needs to be addressed?
Do "ordinary" people often get dangerously caught up in dangerous acts of mindless compliance to "authority" Or are incidents like those seen in Compliance isolated events based on ignorance and poor judgment?
How do we raise a generation of citizens with the confidence to think for itself and stand up for what is right?
Well, I DIDN'T know Compliance was based on True events when I saw it and I flipped out completely. Nobody can be THAT stupid was my first reaction and when I realised that it actually happened, to the last detail, I swear I was speechless.
ReplyDeleteBut I really don't think there is any magic solution to this apart from being aware, especially in cases like Sandra, where she is portrayed as otherwise reasonable person. Before and After. This was just a slip in judgement, which unfortunately could have easily caused someone else their life.
Shantanu, I would have had the same reaction if I had seen this movie before reading that it was based on a true story. I definitely would have flipped out. :-)
DeleteYou made a good point about Sandra apparently being a rational person, before and after the incident, and about there being no magic solution. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Kids either mindlessly comply or ruthlessly rebel. It's the folks which can ignore what they are relentlessly taught from when they were small, "Do as you're told. Don't question authority." who make it out ok. They are the folks who really think. To raise a generation of people who can stand up for themselves we begin by allowing our children to stand up for themselves, especially to their parents and other authority figures. Just my .02.
ReplyDelete"Kids either mindlessly comply or ruthlessly rebel." The students I referred to -- the ones who "shot themselves in the foot" rebelling when compliance would have served them better -- are a good example of that. Your comment seems to suggest that this kind of rebellion stems from not being allowed to assert themselves in healthy ways. And I couldn't agree more.
DeleteAlso, healthy compliance (if "compliance" is the right word) is based on trust. For the most part, starting from a very tender age, adults had failed to earn these kids' trust.
I agree that this probably starts with parents and other educators allowing kids to stand up for themselves.
My kids seem to have no trouble advocating for themselves, at least with me. As you probably know, I've been called on my B.S. ever since my oldest could talk. :-) (The challenge there is learning to pick her battles). It remains to be seen how this will generalize to other situations in life.
Great, great questions and no easy answers. The mob mentality is a tough sociological phenomenon to overcome, if it can even be done. As for questioning authority, that's also a tough one. I know I was raised to ask questions and not accept the status quo as part of the gifted program in my elementary school. Yet, it is the one area that has caused me the most grief in the business world. For all our talk of accepting those who "rebel" or at least question authority figures, there are very few authority figures who are okay with having their judgment questioned. It becomes a painful lesson to learn and one that STILL gets me in trouble with managers.
ReplyDeleteThose are all good points, Michelle. I was raised to ask questions, too, and I can remember challenging my public school teachers on various things, with mixed results. :-)
DeleteInteresting questions, I should watch Compliance when I get the chance.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if you've already gone through them, a couple of famous cases from WW2 worth looking into are Adolf Eichmann, and also Nuremberg Trials. Taken from wikipedia:
Eichmann insisted that he was only "following orders"—the same Nuremberg Defense used by some of the Nazi war criminals during the 1945–1946 Nuremberg Trials.
Chris, I'd be very interested to know what you think of this movie. Thanks for mentioning Adolf Eichmann. Nuremberg is definitely on the agenda, but I didn't have any specific names in mind. I'll delve into that.
DeleteWow. I haven't seen this movie but I think I really should. You've asked some great questions that I wish I had the answers to! I homeschool and I'm *trying* to raise my kids so that they question authority and to think for themselves. It's not always easy and it can make life out there in the "real world" uncomfortable at times.
ReplyDeleteRaising kids who question authority can make life out in the "real world" uncomfortable at times ... that is definitely a fair point! People tend not to expect that from "good" kids, and it makes folks very uncomfortable.
DeleteYes! I've seen too many parents decline to encourage kids to question authority because they are afraid it will erode their own authority over their children.
ReplyDeleteI think you're exactly right, and I've struggled with this in myself. I think real authority is based on trust and faith in your guidance, and it has to be earned. Too few people out there recognize that, in my experience. But maybe the trick, as a parent, is to help kids realize that and only accept guidance (although never blindly)from people who've legitimately earned their trust .
DeleteThere are definitely interesting questions here. For example, in your example about troubled kids not complying with authority, why do you think they would be better off to do so? Is it possible that they are actually being smart? In other words, if all of their experience tells them that complying with authority isn't going to get them anywhere, why bother? Can not complying be seen as an act of resistance?
ReplyDeleteI would go into the discussion with questions like that. So to take the set up of this movie, what would be the consequences of Sandra not complying with a "policeman" who phoned to ask her to do things? Clearly this movie would have no plot but if people routinely questioned authority, how hard would it be for John to do his job? How hard would it be for a teacher to manage a classroom of 30 kids (or 20; or 15)?
Looking at counterfactuals can help tease out some of the issues. Because it isn't a straightforward black and white issue. We need to comply sometimes. And sometimes it makes sense to resist. The interesting point (sociologically) is how we tell the difference.
To return to the example of the troubled kids and school, that can also raise the issue of how the situation looks different depending on where you are in the system. One of the privileges of being white, male and middle class is that by and large the system works as it should: if you study hard and get good grades, you will get into a good college, and you will get a good job. You will be promoted based on your performance in the job. This will not appear as privilege. It will appear as being rewarded for merit.
However, others experience of the system is that you can work really hard and still not get the things that are supposedly decided on merit. That doesn't mean any individual discriminated against you as an individual but rather that the system works to privilege certain bodies over others.
That might take you too far from the plot of this movie but it is worth considering what Sandra thinks she will get by complying with the police officer, or perhaps more productively what she thinks she has to lose if she doesn't comply. How would that calculation be different if the officer on the phone asked her to do this to a male employee?
Okay, that's long enough. Hope it helps.
Thanks, Jo, I can always count on you for thought-provoking discussion. And there is a wealth of ideas here to work with! I'll also take a peek at the concise sociology text you sent me -- I know things like the Milgram experiment are often taught in sociology classes.
Delete"Clearly this movie would have no plot, but if people routinely questioned authority, how hard would it be for John to do his job?" Yes, we definitely don't want a society full of people behaving as Sandra did, but a certain amount of respect for the uniform is not a bad thing. :-) This kind of respect has definitely eroded. John constantly runs into people who'd as soon tell him "fuck you" and threaten him as look at him.
I need to read 11/22/63, it's a must read!
ReplyDeleteCompliance sounds interesting, and you know what? Yes, people can be that stupid, it's a scary world we live in. I try to raise my kids with self confidence and the courage to do what they know deep down inside is right. That is a great topic of converstaion, "In what circumstances is obedience to authority a good thing? In what circumstances is it a bad thing?"
All my school years I went to Catholic school, and let me tell you, being stuck in a school with I hate to say it, nuns who hate children, was not a fun thing. Some of my teachers were great, but wow, looking back on it as an adult I wish I could go back in time and tell them off! Some authority figures are just plain crazy. And back when I was in grade school it was ok to smack kids in the back of the head or not allow them to eat their lunch if they were misbehaving in class.
You raised a lot of great points, Naida. When I went to public school, in the 70s, corporal punishment in schools was the norm -- paddles and rulers were the tools of the trade. It was considered correct behavior at the time, but it's really just another way of bullying people into compliance.
DeleteHmm. Where to begin?
ReplyDeleteWhen I was a kid, for whatever reason, I routinely questioned authority, but often inwardly. I respected adults and teachers enough to do as I was told, but rarely (if ever) to my own detriment. I think the key is to teach kids to focus on how and when you question authority, not whether you should or not.
But as a teacher, tone and timing are two things that elude most kids.
As the parent of a three-year old boy, explaining why my son should do something can become so tedious, I revert to the archaic Because I said so! reply, even though that's not ever the reason.
In college, I recall watching a movie about the Wannsee Conference. It shocked and appalled all of us how compliant and bureaucratic the process of the Final Solution was discussed and planned. Might be a good discussion piece...
"I think the key is to teach kids to focus on how and when you question authority, not whether you should or not" ... I agree. Well said! And yes, I think knowing how and when to press an issue is a difficult skill for many pre-teens and teens.
DeleteMy kids, especially my oldest, would have no qualms about arguing with God himself if they felt moved to do so. To an extent, I feel this is something to celebrate. But I find myself repeating the mantra, "Pick your battles. It will make your life SO much easier."
I revert to "Because I said so!" too, not because I think it's a wonderful parenting strategy, but because, as you said, trying to explain and justify every single thing to a young child (and, in some cases, to a teenager) is exhausting, time-consuming, and unproductive. I don't see anything wrong with that, in moderation. I think they're capable of understanding that the message is NOT "Never challenge my authority" but "I'm not going to debate every minute point that comes up throughout the day." *LOL*
The movie about the Wannsee Conference sounds interesting. Do you remember what it's called?
LOVE 11/22/63 but I am a HUGE Stephen King fan. :) I can't wait until Keilee is a bit older to watch and explore some of the things you discuss here. I am not very strict or freaky about movies but just turned 13 is a bit young for some things. It is sad that so often the 'nobody can be that stupid' moments DO REALLY happen. I LOVE the Topics I Want to Discuss With My Teens" In fact I am about to copy and paste it so I will have it saved. I have always taught Keilee to respectfully question authority if she feels it needs to be. OF COURSE she should, blindly going along with 'an adult' is what gets kids killed among other things. Really liked this post Steph.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Karen! Stephen King is hit or miss for me, but when he's good he's GREAT! I'm 95% of the way through this book and don't want to put it down. I'm just getting to the really weird stuff. :-)
DeleteI agree that barely 13 is a bit young for this kind of movie and for some of these discussion topics. I wouldn't have exposed my kids to this stuff at that age either. Heck, my 18-year-old found the film Compliance distressing, and she watches some pretty extreme movies.
I like what you said about "respectfully questioning authority." I don't think kids should ever feel they have to agree or obey just because the person in question is an adult or in a position of authority. But respect and good manners are important.
Compiance was pretty much a moment by moment re-creation of a real event from West Virginia; they just kept saying it was a general story on the DVD so they didn't have to pay the girl for her story. The worst part, aside from the obvious, is that the female manager, rather than being prosecuted like the man was, claimed victim status and got a million dollars from the fast food chain.
ReplyDeleteIt's hard for me to have a ton of sympathy for someone who just does whatever a voice on the phone is telling them to do. My default position seems to have always been "who are you to try to tell me what to do?" When I was 18 I was flipping through a comic book in a store. All of a sudden a man saying he was the store manager came up to me and claimed I had shoplifted (I had a bag with a few comics in it from another store.) I said I hadn't. He said I would need to come in the back room with him. I said no way was I going to go in a back room with him. He got pissed and threatened to call the cops to come and arrest me. Knowing I had done nothing wrong, I told him to go right ahead. He told me not to leave the store and stormed off. A few minutes later an irritated cop showed up. I got the impression this was far from the first time he had been called to this store by the manager. He looked in my bag, asked where I got the comics, I told him the store, he called them and they remembered me buying them - all things the manager could have done, but when I "defied his au-thor-i-tay" it threw him for a loop.
When I was at college I and several other students got a bill for damage to our building. The college claimed we had damaged the brick exterior by hitting it with one of our vehicles. We took a look at it, saw the impression of a tire right below the damage, compared it to the tires on the plow truck the college used to clear the parking lot, and told them it was their own maintenance men who had caused the damage, not us. The charge was dropped. I was a key person pushing back, so I don't think what happened next was a coincidence.
The summer after that I got another bill for replacing the lock on my door. I called and asked what it was about. I was told Maintenance's pass key wouldn't work on the door and they had to break in. I told them my key worked fine when I turned it in for the summer and asked if Maintenance had tried that. I was told no, that they didn't want to take the time to go get it. I then asked them why I should pay to repair a door that was working fine before their own people damaged it. They dropped the charge, but I found out that fall my roommate had paid it even though he didn't know what it was for.
I agree ... it's hard for me to sympathize with someone who takes orders from a "cop" over the phone. ("You're an officer of the law? You're going to need to come in and show me some I.D.") Which is one reason I am so impressed with Ann Dowd's performance -- she portrayed the character with enough complexity that I couldn't just dismiss her -- I thought a lot about her feelings and motives.
DeleteI'm glad you stood up to the comic book store guy when you were a kid. I would have been terrified if an adult had confronted me at that age. Good for you!
I really, really want to start watching American Horror Story as well. I keep meaning to see if they have the first season at the library but then I forget when I'm actually there :) It sounds like a really good show!
ReplyDeleteIt's definitely a different kind of show. :-) I give it credit for having good acting and being genuinely creepy and disturbing at times.
DeleteFantastic review! This is a great film to spark discussion. I think the problem is rooted in both of the questions you ask: we're taught to obey authority, and many people use poor judgment. Of course, Becky does agree to the strip search because she doesn't want to be booked at the police station. The reason is logical, even if what follows renders it a bad decision. But she and the workers should have been more cautious.
ReplyDeleteIf the "policeman" can't hang up with Becky, the logical thing to do (especially after he starts making strange demands) would be to have someone else phone the police station and check his story. For instance, drivers get pulled over by people impersonating police officers, and a number exists to verify that they are police officers. Or you can ask the officer for identification. I think it comes down to exercising caution in today's world. But it's hard to question authority like that when we're constantly being told to comply.
Thanks! I'm glad you liked the review.
DeleteI didn't blame Becky as much as I blamed Sandra. As bizarre as the situation was, I couldn't forget that she was practically a kid, and once her clothes were removed she was in a very vulnerable position -- it made it tough for her to walk out of the building. And being alone in a room with a man making physical demands can be very intimidating for a female, especially one so young.
We do seem to get mixed messages. We're told about people impersonating police officers and we're continually warned about predators -- the message being "trust no one." Yet we're taught from childhood to blindly trust authority figures.
While Compliance isn't a kid-appropriate film, I'd love to see discussions like this happening in schools, maybe with middle school-aged students. At this age, they're wired to rebel. They need to be given permission and support to do it in healthy, appropriate ways.
I just read another review of Compliance not too long ago and now this, sounds like a very intriguing premise, glad that the execution is excellent as well.
ReplyDeleteThat's an interesting topic to discuss with your kids, especially this one: In what circumstances is obedience to authority. Ahah, your remark "People cannot possibly be that stupid!" makes me laugh, boy your husband must be very patient encountering ridiculous cases in his job.
If you watch this movie, Ruth, I'm very interested to hear what you think of it. It's definitely a unique film.
DeleteI can't wait to see this film. My psychology teacher wife was reading this post over my shoulder and was very interested in all the stuff you noted down to discuss with your teens from Milgram to Mai Lai. She teaches all that stuff and now she's very keen to see Compliance!
ReplyDeleteThanks, Pete! I look forward to hearing what you and your wife think of this movie. And I am very curious about how your wife explores these topics with her students. Does she have lecture notes online, by any chance?
DeleteShe actually just quit last year to move more into the social work and counseling side of things but I'll ask what she's got in terms of lecture notes and see if there is anything I can email over!
DeleteLove American Horror Story. Wait til you get to the second season. Things get so very, very twisted. If you're enjoying the first season, you'll love the second.
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to catching Compliance. It's kind of horrifying to know it's based on a real event. Fear is a big motivator, I think, in something like Compliance. Fear that if you don't do what you're told, you yourself will have to pay for it. That fear overrides rational thought big time.
"Fear is a big motivator ... the fear overrides rational thought big time." That's very true, and that's probably as close to an accurate explanation of this kind of behavior as you can get.
DeleteWhen I first started reading this post I thought it said "and the Wine, Y' know" lol
ReplyDeleteJust started watching American Horror Story with the misses, good stuff
Glad you and your wife are enjoying the show. :)
Delete"Fucked-upness." I like that. It's my new favourite word.
ReplyDeleteI ended up watching American Horror Story over the Christmas holidays and absolutely loved it for the very same reason. It's so messed up in every possible way, and yet intelligently written. What a combo!
Glad you like that word. :-) I am a fan of any and all variations of "The F Word," really.
Delete